Amrop Digital Interview: Slovenské ženy v IT
Pred 12 rokmi založila Petra Kotuliaková občianske združenie Aj Ty v IT, aby pomohla ženám začať pracovať v technologickom priemysle, bojovať proti zaužívaným predsudkom, že technológie sú považované za sektor, ktorému dominujú muži. Aj Ty v IT napĺňa tento cieľ prostredníctvom prebudovávania rodových stereotypov, budovania komunity a motivácie prostredníctvom celoživotného vzdelávania. Petra Kotuliaková sa rozprávala s Matejom Taligom zo spoločnosti Amrop, členom Amrop’s Global Digital Practice.
Matej Taliga: Petra, can you please start by telling us a bit about yourself and the Aj Ty v IT, the Slovak Women in Tech organization?
Petra Kotuliakova: Sure. My background is not in Tech, but in Economics, which I have a PhD in, and this, the choice, which was basically made for me by my parents, is one of the reasons why I want to help girls make their own choices when they select the study topic and consider going into Tech. 12 years ago I founded Aj Ty v IT, an organization the goal of which was to help girls and women gain some technology education – also adult women, so that they would be able to find job in Tech. We started out offering activities only for girls, but over the years we realized how important it is to also work with adult women. Another direction for us is helping primary school and high school teachers – we provide education for them focused on new developments in tech and we have also prepared a guide for teachers on how to have sensitive communication with girls around Tech. That’s especially important in high schools – we see how crucial good communication between teachers and girls is and how much it affects the girls’ choices.
Matej Taliga: Thank you, Petra. Can you talk a bit more about what inspired you to become involved with Aj Ty v IT, and what motivates you personally to advocate for women in the technology sector?
Petra Kotuliakova: I mentioned before that my background is not in Tech, but I worked in the Marketing field for the Faculty of Informatics and Information Technologies of the Slovak University of Technology in Bratislava 12 years ago, and on my first day there I realized there was something strange about this faculty. I couldn’t quite place it right away, but at the end of that day I realized that there were no women there. This was a time when the faculty had about 3-5% of female students – out of about 1000 students, so it was very unlikely to actually see them in passing.... So, this was probably the first push for me. I didn’t have an intention to create any kind of organization – I just wanted to help girls go study Tech subjects. The first activities we organized were workshops and discussions with other young women, students or other female professionals in Tech. My idea was to help high school students discover how Tech studies work and why they should study these subjects.
Matej Taliga: And what was the response of the students?
Petra Kotuliakova: During these years we realized how hard it is to work with someone who is 17 or 18 years old, because, if at this age you don’t already have the idea of studying a Tech subject, then it’s very hard to get it into your head (laughs). This is why now we work with girls starting from the age of 8 years, and this is a great age, because they don’t have any biases or prejudice. Everything is open for them, they have lots of opportunities, and they don’t see any obstacles.
Matej Taliga: And how did you start working with adult women?
Petra Kotuliakova: It’s funny because a lot of mothers of the girls we worked with started asking us if they could also follow Aj Ty v IT activities – so, it was a direct request from the potential target audience. The women really wanted us to help them, so we developed new training academies, and now we have a whole series of training academies on different Tech topics for adult women who need training in order to get junior positions in Tech companies. The average woman attending our trainings is about 30-35 years old, but we also have 50-year-old women, who all start to learn new IT skills and then try to get junior IT jobs. Their willingness and their capacity to learn new things, that’s really amazing for me to see.
Matej Taliga: That sounds fantastic. And it also sounds like community-building is a vital part of your mission. What strategies have been most effective in fostering a supportive network for women in the tech industry in Slovakia?
Petra Kotuliakova: I believe that community really is the key here. Based on the data and our experiences, when women are in mixed groups with lots of men, they often feel hesitant to ask questions. As a result, their progress tends to be slower; they may sit in the back trying to remain inconspicuous because they perceive themselves as the weakest members of the group. This is one reason we see a lack of progress in general public trainings,. Many women find it challenging to participate fully due to their lack of confidence. Even when they do attend, they may not advance as quickly as they could because they are reluctant to ask questions or engage with the group. To address this, we created female-only groups, where our main message is to encourage them to ask any questions, no matter how many times they need to ask them – because if you leave the training without those answers, you will never come back to this question and you will lose a lot.
And secondly, we are successfully changing the perception of what it takes to get an IT job. There's a common belief that if you don't have five years of university IT studies, you're not qualified. We are changing the mindset of women that they can learn IT skills and be successful in technology even when they are 30 or 40 years old without that university degree. And this programme that we are doing in Slovakia is something that should be replicated everywhere. We have created an environment where everyone feels empowered to contribute, regardless of their level of experience.
Matej Taliga: That’s true, there’s definitely a prevalent perception that you need to have studied Tech at the university level to even consider doing something around it.
Petra Kotuliakova: Precisely. But Aj Ty v IT is encouraging 30-40-year-olds without Tech education to have different trainings and to go and get their first Tech jobs. This is very important, because many of them are women who previously perhaps wanted to study a Tech subject but never had the opportunity or encouragement. And we just say: come with us and try it, and you will see the result! In this way, we can truly create a community of women who support each other. It's important to acknowledge that everyone has challenging days. There are times when it feels overwhelming, and you might think about giving up because the workload is just too much. However, when you have a network of women around you, it becomes essential to hear the message: 'Don't give up.' Having someone nearby to remind you of this can make a significant difference and help you persevere. This kind of support is invaluable. Currently, we offer online training, and because of this supportive environment, 99% of participants successfully complete the course. The motivation that comes from this community is key to their success.
Matej Taliga: And if we talk about skillset: what key skills do you think are essential for young girls to learn today to prepare for a career in technology?
Petra Kotuliakova: I know this is not a very “Tech answer” but I believe the key knowledge they should possess is the ability to understand what they are reading and working on - comprehensive reading skills are essential. If you do not fully understand the question, you will never be able to provide an answer or develop solutions. I think this critical skill is often lacking in the traditional school system and the way we educate children. To understand the topic in question, it is critical to grasp the nuances and prepare viable solutions. We are witnessing a rapidly changing landscape where individuals need to adapt and remain informed. It is essential for women, regardless of their roles — whether in technology, banking, or healthcare — to possess a basic digital skill set. This skill set is crucial because the nature of work is evolving so quickly that, without it, they risk falling behind. In five years, those lacking these skills may find themselves in low-paying positions, feeling unfulfilled and dissatisfied with their work. It is imperative to recognize that digital skills are not solely for those in tech roles, but are increasingly necessary across all fields.
Matej Taliga: On a related note, what are some of the biggest challenges that women in the tech sector face today, and how does Aj Ty v IT work to address these challenges?
Petra Kotuliakova: I believe the biggest challenge for many women is their own perception of themselves. Often, women are underestimated that they are not good enough, that they are unable to complete certain tasks, or that they don’t measure up to their colleagues. This sense of low self-esteem is prevalent, especially in Slovakia, where many women struggle with low self-confidence. To address this, we offer a variety of soft-skill training, community coaching, and group coaching sessions. Additionally, the societal structure in Slovakia tends to concentrate on the role of women as primary caregivers. When a woman seeks to advance her career or grow quickly, this ambition may not always be supported by her family or community, which can create further challenges. The lack of support for women pursuing career advancement is critical in Slovakia, and addressing these societal attitudes is essential.
Matej Taliga: What you're saying is very interesting because we have a tendency to live in our bubble, especially here in Bratislava, where the positions of women and men are more or less equal. I wouldn't say they are totally equal, but the further east we go, the situation and traditions are very different. Now, looking ahead, what are your organization's long-term goals regarding increasing the participation of women in technology?
Petra Kotuliakova: As I mentioned before, our primary goal is to change the mindset of the general population regarding the necessity of acquiring new IT and digital skills. While we actively work with women, this is an issue that impacts society as a whole. Many men also lack these essential skills, making it critical for all of Slovakia to enhance the skill set of its workforce - to remain competitive with other parts of Europe. We strive to helpwomen to gain this knowledge, but it’s often challenging to explain why they should learn digital skills. Many believe that since nothing is happening in their local area, they do not need these skills. Thus, changing the mindset of women about lifelong learning becomes a strong and long-term strategy for us. Regarding younger girls, this is particularly crucial because the educational system in Slovakia does not adequately prepare them for the new challenges in the job market, especially in Tech development. It’s always a challenge for us to find the next motivating factor to draw them into tech fields. We focus on making learning enjoyable and inspiring because we have many talented young girls who often lack the opportunities to thrive.
Matej Taliga: Could you elaborate on the educational programs designed for these different groups? What is your primary focus for each of these groups within the programs?
Petra Kotuliakova: In each of the age groups we strive to align with the state education system, especially by addressing what is missing. The key motivation for us is to provide tangible experiences. When participants can touch something and see the results, it creates a strong impact. If they are only writing code and watching something happen on a screen, it's often not enough for girls - they need to see the immediate results of their efforts. We utilize various hardware tools so that they can interact with physical items. When they see something light up or make sounds and movements, it reinforces their sense of achievement. This tangible experience allows them to share their successes with their peers and parents, which serves as a foundation for further activities.
Matej Taliga: I have two final questions, and for one, I will speak a bit more personally as a father of three daughters. One of my missions is to support them in whatever they choose to pursue. What has been your experience with men in the technology sector who support women? Do you work closely with them, and how is that relationship structured?
Petra Kotuliakova: What we are trying to build here at Aj Ty v IT in Slovakia is crucial and thank you for this question. I believe that male allies are even more important at times, as the discussion about women in tech is not solely a female issue; it is a challenge that affects society as a whole. Without enough male involvement in this topic, the concerns raised by girls about lacking attention and support will persist. The real issue is that society does not create sufficient opportunities for women. Regarding maternity and parental leave, many women want to return to work, but the existing infrastructure for childcare does not support them effectively. There often isn't enough available care for children, which limits their ability to re-enter the workforce. Having more male voices engaged in this issue can lead to significant societal changes. It’s important for women to see that it’s not just me, Petra, advocating for girls in tech, but also men who recognize the need for women in the workforce. This collective acknowledgment can truly inspire change and encourage further progress. We welcome all men to join in this effort, as their involvement can also create positive outcomes for girls.
Matej Taliga: I have experienced, in my career with Amrop, that Slovakia has many great women in the IT and digital fields, ranging from lead data scientists to business architects, coders, and even leadership positions in IT. Returning to the last question we discussed, in your opinion, how can advancements in technology contribute to achieving gender equality, not only in the workplace but also in society at large?
Petra Kotuliakova: We need to understand that technology itself is not the ultimate goal. It’s not just about advancing technology for technology’s sake; rather, technology is a tool. We should utilize the different tools that technology offers us because once we have this knowledge, we can collaborate on projects and initiatives.
This is the key message of our organization: it is crucial for companies to have diverse teams that bring different knowledge and experiences. By doing so, we can create a better society and develop better products. Having diverse teams contributes to gender equality because when you work on meaningful projects, your contributions will be evaluated on par with those of your male colleagues, as you will bring equal value to the table.
Matej Taliga: Is there anything else you would like to add to the topic of women in Tech, or more generally, women in the workplace and their career development?
Petra Kotuliakova: I would just like to stress that women are doing a lot to achieve good education, secure jobs, and provide value. However, what we need more of is support from organizations. I believe women can accomplish even more, as they have put in significant effort to develop their skills. On the other hand, if they do not receive opportunities for advancement and if their working conditions are not conducive to growth, they may leave the sector feeling undervalued. What we need is a better understanding from male colleagues and leaders within different organizations of the importance of providing good working conditions for women. It's essential to help them progress and to bring in mentors and sponsors for them. We need to create a holistic ecosystem for society as a whole, not just for women. I believe that when one woman succeeds, the entire organization benefits from the value she brings. Therefore, this is not just a women’s issue; it’s a shared responsibility among all companies and the systems they operate within.